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Bomber Box

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Bomber Box

Post  Rudolf Farber on Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:38 am

I am new to be being a bomber pilot and i find mapping all these keys to keyboard bullshit.  I find it hard to find the keys by touch alone and my joystick doesnt have enough keys...

I really feel we need a specialist controller that we can use across a variety of aircraft and even sims (where you are only allowed keys, or rotating controls or levers...).

I can create a quality product and assemble it myself with input from you guys about which and how many keys we need.

I can also create in parallel controls, so you may have a toggle switch and a push once switch so you can use what you prefer...

I along with you and probably with help from Vogler can create a controller that is plug and play and finished to a decent standard to facilitate the controls we need at only component and postage cost.  - doing the work myself.

If this strikes anyone else as useful please show your interest.  I expect cost to be reasonable...  perhaps around £30+P&P...

If you want to be part of this or are just interested please join in this discusion with your input.

We would use something like this:
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/

Minimum $16 for 12 inputs...  Plus switches... dials, etc...  A box to put it all in and some solder...  Switches could be labelled or left blank.

Any takers?  Im not out to make a penny from this, simply the cost of materials, I will do any work needed and I am proficient at soldering being an electrician.  All it will cost you is what it cost in parts and P&P.

Ill see about finding some decent hobby boxes and plan it all with everyone's help...  Then take orders, I'd rather make them all together, so don't complain if you cant get one later...

We can even have LED confirmation lights and all switches labbelled, in your language!!   LOL

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Rudolf Farber on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:32 pm

Looking up some components and this seems very affordable for £30 or less.

I was thinking of including:

Elevator sliding pot (Vogler do I need double pole for the switch to stat in the centre?)
Rudder sliding pot (Vogler do I need double pole for the switch to stat in the centre?)
Ailerons rotary pot (Vogler do I need double pole for the switch to stat in the centre?)

Arm Bomb with light up confirmation
Select bombay with light up confirmation
Open bombay door

What other controls would be useful? Salvo? Spread?

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Niklas Klein on Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:24 am

Looks very handy but I am not interested. I have a fairly long history of flying multis and level bombing. I have my own little system setup for that.

I map all the bombsight controls to the numpad. 7/1 are speed, 9/3 are alt, 8/2 are bombsite angle. I could use 5 for bombsight automation but I have a button mapped on my throttle for that.

I used to use the POV hats in 1946 days but those are now used for autopilot heading and rads.

Just get some more stick time and the familiarity will come. It all boils down to muscle memory.

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Hans Jaeger on Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:45 am

For JU 88 you need:
Select Bombay : next and previous: 2 switches
Open Bombbay: toggle: 1 switch
Bombe salvo: single, series, salvo next and previous: 2 switch
Bomb armed: 1 switch
Airbrake: 1 switch

For setting sight:
speed up and down : 2 switches
Bombsight up down: 2 switches
sideslip: 2 switches
Altitude: 2 switches
Automation: 1 switch

It is also very recommended to have dedicated switches for compressor in the JU 88 since you can not see them from pilot seat
2 switches set as toggle

It is also handy to have two switches for selection of engines for easier choose you engines for manually manage one engine: 2 switches.




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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Paul Zorner on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:37 am

Sounds like a good idea.

I've been using a six-lever CH Products Throttle Quadrant for flaps, oil and water radiators, mixture and for dual throttles of the bomber aircraft (immersion!).

There is an equal number of two-way toggle switches in that quadrant which I've mapped for fuel management, superchargers, undercarriage and the autopilot modes and course change.

There are some buttons in my flight stick which I use for bomb bay, salvo mode and airbrake.

However, there are never enough dedicated buttons and switches.

I'll buy one if you venture into making such a box.

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Rudolf Farber on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:23 am

First thing that needs to be done is find out a basic layout and how many switches and what kind, like single throw single pole, toggle, etc etc...

Once I know what switches we are talking about I will ask vogler what mechanics translates to what switches... I will buy as many units as people want and assemble them. Post them. Then there maybe some tweaking with software for the teensey board and they should be good to go.

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Hans-Karl Oster on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:40 am

I'm in! Very interested, as I can never remember all the commands either, and looking at a bit of paper with them written down is a PIA! I have wanted a box for ages.
Jaeger is on the right track with the controls, hopefully with enough space to have labels on everything!
Brilliant idea!

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Hans Jaeger on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:58 am

I am also interested in this

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Rudolf Farber on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:45 am

Well i am in your guys hands for design...  You know more than me.  Also please expend on what can of button or switch for each one!  

I have already envisaged elevator, on a vertical slide, rudder on a horizontal slide, and aileron one a rotating knob...,  then over to the other business side, bombs and stuff like Jaeger mentioned.

I am really interested in having some kind of feed back, not simply a knob and button box but actually have lights on it so you can tell at a glance what is activated.

Some of the project boxes which will be our blank box to start from cost as much as 1/3rd of our projected budget so i will keep on looking for a suitable box.  Like Oster mentioned, we have to fit it all on there...  Price seems to indicate size.

As for labeling, I assume some people will want to use different things for different things, so I assume we self label.  I will just be labeling with an old school mechanical label printer myself.

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Hans Jaeger on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:10 pm

I think it will be no problem with feedback light, They got this program over at atag witch give you a cockpit gauges on extra screen. Some made moveable sims with that software

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Hans-Karl Oster on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:29 pm

Do we know if RoF, and therefore BoS will support this sort of set up? I know they work in CoD.
Yes, self labelling , as long as theres room.
Trims could be on knobs, but my main focus would be on bomber controls.
They are complicated in CoD, if BoS is following the RoF method then they will be simplified, and we might have a pop up box on screen like the RoF bombsight where you adjust settings with the mouse (just putting that out there!)
Some of the less used controls could be on there, like gear up/down, supercharger

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Hans-Karl Oster on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:35 pm

I knew there was a thread running at 1c somewhere, might be useful!
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32865

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Johann Faust on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:35 pm

yes sounds good i really want a emergency gear down switch. Make sure you have not a toggle bomb bay, but open and close bomb bay switch, toggle is unreliable in the ju88. 

I could use it for the A10 as well as the p51 DCS

Make sure you use the sexy old fashion toggle switches lol 

Do you no how much p&p will be?

I will probably order one:)

 Salute

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Hans-Karl Oster on Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:32 am

P n P? Party at Farbers place more like...  bounce   cheers 

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Rudolf Farber on Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:42 am

PnP would run about 5 quid or less. I sent a gfx card to Netherlands and a wireless network card to Sweden last year and neither was more than 5 quid.

America is a little more expensive, just depends how far across, I tried to send Porsche a small model to Arizona and they wanted 20 quid!

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Erhard Vogler on Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:00 am


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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Rudolf Farber on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:48 am

Yes but his boards are now more expensive than our whole project  affraid 

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DIY TIME - Building a flight control unit using a teensy board

Post  Herbert Wolfgang on Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:51 am

Hey all

I have been debating about building my own additional flight control box for some time. The last couple of day's I have been brain storming a few ideas and have been looking at various parts. I just wanted to share my idea's (as I know Farber has some interest also) to see what additional input I could receive to drive my imagination!

For the control box I am looking to implement:
- Trim Controls
 - Using 3 slider pots
- Auto Pilot Controls
 - Rotary Switch to change between modes?
 - Toggle (on)-off-(on) switch to control direction?
- (Arm) Bomb function
 - Arm Bomb push to make button with protection guard and LED indicator
 - Bomb release - Toggle on-on switch with protection guard
 - O (didn't think of this till now) but another rotary switch to select bomb modes?
- Additional Engine Management
 - Super Charges
 - Extinguish System?
- Eject Function

Wolfgang

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Johann Faust on Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:41 pm

What about the directional gyro setter for auto pilot needs to be same as the autopilot coarse setter.

Dont forget the bombsight controls

Move bombsight left and right,up and down
alttuide setting
speed setting
distruputer setting for distance ie,10,20,30,40,50,60 meters,ect,ect prob needs to be rotary dial

bomb relese mode salvo single series 3 way switch will do

ok mate i think thats it

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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Rudolf Farber on Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:44 am

Merged.

 Salute 

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Drawing a picture...

Post  Herbert Wolfgang on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:07 am

Cheers for the merge, forgot about your previous bomber box post... opps!
Also a cheers to Faust for some of his input from my last post!

Anyway, today I had some "spare" time and drew a couple of sketches/ idea's of the box layout on microsoft visio... (see attached)









Now I realise I may have missed a couple of items (i.e. I could have added a bomb door push button in the 'bomb bay control') but these can be added or discussed about in the next few weeks etc.

Until I get my two Teensy 3.1 boards (Yes Farber... I did order some without informing you XD) and am able to experiment with various components, no definite designs will be drawn.

On that note, for example, I am uncertain the slide potentiometers will be suitable for the trims in terms of accuracy and smooth adjustment... Purchasing a suitable enclosure is also proving difficult and possibly expensive!

So for now please tell me what you think!

Cheers

Wolfie Wink

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A few component links

Post  Herbert Wolfgang on Thu May 01, 2014 3:44 am


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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Paul Zorner on Thu May 01, 2014 4:39 am

I'd prefer the second layout.

You must revise it because of the 120mm long sliders. The rest of the buttons won't fit.

Only one set of buttons for horizontal adjustment of bombsight is needed (=side slip).

Do you need a bomb drop button? I'd rather use flight stick.


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Re: Bomber Box

Post  Herbert Wolfgang on Thu May 01, 2014 8:08 am

Like I was saying to Farber earlier...

Until I get the teensy boards & can experiment with various components, no design layout and features will be conclusive!

The important facts are: what can the board handle (i.e. what size pots) & how will the board interact with the game!

It also appears that I have a more expensive taste compared to Farber Very Happy

On that not - I don't think this will be complete for at least... 2 months?

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Additional Power Options

Post  Herbert Wolfgang on Thu May 01, 2014 8:16 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB

Yes I know Wikipedia may not be the greatest or most reliable source but if you scroll down to power it shows the maximum voltage and current for USB 2.0

I could make an additional 'power' board (USB 2.0 connector B Type) which soul purpose is to power a few LED's within the control box! Otherwise I could make a small 5V AC to DC board which will have a higher current/ power rating... but a few more things will have to be taken into consideration (i.e. ac adapter, space, heat distribution and so on).

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Re: Bomber Box

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